Oral History Interview - Fred March - February 19, 2008
Interview with Fred March
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: February 19, 2008
Location: San Marcos, Texas
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Interviewee: Fred March – Retired Professor Emeritus of Theatre and former director of theatre and theatre chair, Fred March came to Texas State University in 1967 and was part of the delegation from the department that staged A Raisin in the Sun at the LBJ State Park in 1972.
Topics: Performance by Ebony Players from Southwest Texas University of Raisin in the Sun at the opening of the LBJ State Park, other campus visits by Lyndon Johnson, Ebony Players and the SWT Theatre Department
Attachments:
- Photograph - President Johnson, David March, and Pat Hambrick
- Photograph - Scene from Raisin in the Sun
- Photograph - Former President Johnson with cast members from Raisin in the Sun, Cynthia Wilson Navarette and Johnny Carson
- Photograph - Three photographs of Lyndon B. Johnson on campus for the dedication of the LBJ display at the Alumni House, November 8, 1971
- Copy of the program from the Raisin in the Sun performance at the LBJ State Park, July 22, 1972
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is February 19, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Fred March in San Marcos, Texas.
Mr. March, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or no.
FRED MARCH: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Well Mr. March, thank you very much. Let’s just start out with a little background information. Can you tell me when you came to Southwest Texas to join the faculty here?
MARCH: I came directly from graduate school. One of my classmates in graduate school had gotten her undergraduate degree here, Ramona Peebles, and when I was about to graduate and looking for jobs, she said, “Apply at Southwest Texas State College. The chairman down there knows me well and they have an opening.” I applied here as well as all over the United States and [I] was asked to come down for an interview. We talked for probably about twenty minutes and he said, “Ramona told me I better hire you before anybody else gets you.” I’ve been here since. I stepped down as chairman in ’99 and did modified retirement until August of 2007. I came as technical director, scene designer. Then in 1983 I was named the director of theatre because it was a department of speech and theatre. Then when we were departmentalized in ’83, I was selected chairman after a national search.
THIBODEAUX: So when did you start?
MARCH: Fall of ’67.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe the theatre department when you came on board? Was it a small program?
MARCH: Well, probably the most revealing thing that reflects change is when I was being interviewed by Dr. McCrocklin. He said, “It will be culture shock for you coming from a large university to such a small university.” There were about 4500 students here and he said, “Someday, someday we’re going to have 7500 students.” That was the goal.
The theatre was in a converted chapel, second floor of Old Main. There was no third floor as there is now. It was very unusual working conditions. If we bought lumber, we had to bring it up through a window by a rope, one piece at a time, breaking windows usually. Very crude setting, but we did quality theatre. Then we began planning for the new building. We were notified in ’68 and moved into the new building in ’70. The mission of the department then was primarily high school teachers, training high school teachers. Through the years that has still maintained a major mission of that department, but we also have the pre-professional program where these are people who say I’m going to make my living in this industry. Now it’s pretty balanced between the two. We have a lot of people that have been very successful on stage as well as television and film. And it has grown phenomenally. When I came here, there might have been 30 speech and drama majors. I think when I left there in August, there was about, well now combined with that I think there’s about 350 or 400 majors now.
THIBODEAUX: Let’s go on to the production of Raisin in the Sun. When was that production done at the university?
MARCH: It was done, if my memory serves, it was done in the spring of ’72. Then we were contacted, James Barton was our director of theatre, about participating in some fashion in the, well of course, McCrocklin was very close to the whole democratic administration and he was the one that approached Mr. Barton about was there any possibility we could revive the play with these young black kids. And of course everybody got very excited about it. So it was re-rehearsed and the scenery had to be modified somewhat to travel. There was a short period of re-rehearsal I guess. We left the morning of the 22nd for the LBJ Ranch and Park.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe the performance there?
MARCH: The day leading to the performance was probably the more interesting aspect. We were unloading the trucks. We looked up and saw a black car followed by a white Continental convertible followed by a black car. We were out there unloading the truck and I’ll be darned if the white convertible didn’t veer off and park right on the road in front of us. It was LBJ himself, alone in the car, sleeves rolled up, very casual. He chatted with us for I guess probably for 15 or 20 minutes. It is one of the very few times in my life that I felt like I was in just an aura of power which he just exuded. I mean you knew you were in the presence of something that was almost frightening. But he was very pleasant and it was a very nice visit with him. Then some of the Secret Service people came over to me after he had gone on and they said, “We want you to understand something, that they haven’t finished the air conditioning.” This was a brand spanking new facility and they said, “The air conditioning is not functioning yet. So we want you to understand, and please tell the cast and the crew that the President and Lady Bird will leave after the first act,” because he had not been feeling well. So we explained to everybody that they would be here through the introductions obviously and during the Act break they would slip out very quietly. And they didn’t leave. He wouldn’t leave. We later found out that he did not want to leave. So the performance was very successful, and at the end, he walked up on stage. He and Lady Bird came up on stage and he was hugging those kids and he handed them his personal check for $1,000.00 for a scholarship fund for black kids for the Ebony Players. That was very impressive. Very much so.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember anyone else who was there as part of the audience?
MARCH: No. I’m sure there were other big political figures. It was a very small, it’s a very small house, probably only seated about 75 or 80 people and there were politicians everywhere. We got a tour of the ranch, the cast and crew and all of us. But it was, obviously it was an invited audience – not just an open thing. If I remember correctly, I think the immediate ex-governor; I think was there, Preston Smith.
THIBODEAUX: And was this the, what was the special event?
MARCH: It was the grand opening of the LBJ State Park. I believe that’s right. I think, well it was honoring the President and J.C. Kellam.
THIBODEAUX: Was there any kind of reception afterwards?
MARCH: Not really, no. In fact we were all astounded he had stayed for the whole performance.
THIBODEAUX: What kind of impact do you think this visit had on the cast and crew?
MARCH: Well, he was a major figure in the United States, much less in the State of Texas so, I mean, there were no dissidents there. Everybody was just very impressed that they had gotten to meet and some of those kids hugged an immediate past president of the United States. He was a very out-going, garrulous guy. There was no, just a total absence of arrogance, just like he was here as one of the crowd.
THIBODEAUX: What about his appearance?
MARCH: Casual. During the day when we saw him, I was struck because he certainly had his sleeves rolled up and he had on khakis. Of course that night he was in a suit, a suit and tie. And it was warm in that little auditorium.
THIBODEAUX: Did he have long hair, or was it starting to get long?
MARCH: Starting to get long, yeah.
THIBODEAUX: That was very different.
MARCH: Yes, very different than his Washington appearance that you saw in the photographs.
THIBODEAUX: Have you had an occasion to meet President Johnson again or just be in a situation –
MARCH: I get my dates mixed up, but I was there for the signing of the education bill when that took place on this campus. [The Higher Education Act was signed November 8, 1965; Lyndon Johnson made eleven documented visits to campus between 1968 and 1973.] I saw him on occasions because, again, this was back when it was a small college and you could hear the helicopter and it would be him landing on the old football field to come over and have coffee with McCrocklin. It was rare, but you’d get a sighting of him because he and McCrocklin were quite close.
THIBODEAUX: Was it rare that you got a sighting or rare that he came on campus?
MARCH: Well it was infrequent. No, it wasn’t rare to get a sighting because he would go to Old Main, and then the coffee shop was down in Flowers Hall and you walked down that central mall and you just watched them walk by – it was the president of the United States.
THIBODEAUX: You have the pictures of the signing of , do you remember that event?
MARCH: Except that it was crowded, crowded. (telephone ringing) I mean there were kids literally hanging off the balconies of some of the dorms. That gives you an idea of how crowded it was.
THIBODEAUX: Oh yes.
MARCH: It was a mass of people. But we were fortunate to get his and Lady Bird’s autograph on the program for that day. All that stuff my wife has framed.
THIBODEAUX: So where did the signing take place on campus?
MARCH: At the Alumni House.
THIBODEAUX: Was it raining that day?
MARCH: No, I don’t think so. I mean it looks sunny, at least in this bunch of extra pictures. No, I remember.
THIBODEAUX: I think I am thinking of another event. They had to move it indoors. That is interesting, the pictures of all those students.
MARCH: Oh, everybody in town, county, Austin was there.
THIBODEAUX: This question does not have anything to do with what we are talking about. Even the history of the Ebony Players is interesting. Can you tell me a little bit about them?
MARCH: Well yes. There was just that nucleus of black students. I think it was probably more black students than we have had since. I do believe that. Thomas Carter who is now very successful in Hollywood, Thomas Carter Productions, Eugene Lee, Leonard Wilson, Cynthia Wilson, Leonard’s sister. It must have been about eight that approached Mr. Barton that they wanted some kind of venue for performance because obviously, unfortunately, the only roles that would ever come up for them would be like janitors, custodians, or some kind of hoodlum or whatever. So the department fell behind them all the way. They did Ceremonies and Dark Old Men, Raisin in the Sun, and then when they graduated there was an effort to try to keep the Ebony Players alive. It kind of surfaced in and out. I know Sandra Mayo tried to revive it even as recently as five years ago, but we just never had that influx of black kids. Plus casting has changed over the years. We were one of the first to do what they call, what is it, oh I don’t know, we did Romeo and Juliet with a black Romeo and a white Juliet, and it had nothing to do with race. I mean we didn’t play on it. It was not even an element of the production. It has a name now for ignoring skin color, but we were one of the first to do that, and I think that may have contributed to the demise of the Ebony Players. I don’t know. I know Eugene, when he does the Black – Hispanic playwrights conference each summer is very disappointed in the turnout of black kids to audition. He’ll see one walking on the campus and beg him to come audition because they have not been able to find enough of those kids to do a full production. So it was probably stronger in the ‘70s than it is now, much stronger.
THIBODEAUX: That’s interesting.
MARCH: They have all stayed in touch with each other, that original group. I mean at any given moment Doc Jackson, well he’s in Bastrop, he was in the cast and I know Leonard is in a current production up here. As I said, I have stayed in touch with Eugene. Thomas and I communicate by e-mail and that sort of thing. I got Thomas back here, well I nominated Thomas for Distinguished Alum and Eugene, and then I did Power Boothe, and they are all Distinguished Alumni. Thomas has come back as the major commencement speaker. My wife and I talked about this and the kids talk about it – the students from the ‘70s, we are still in touch with. In fact there are about five right here in Central Texas which includes Eugene who wants to get a 1970s reunion going because we were just a very close knit group. Of course, I never did see my wife or kids; as technical director and designer it was virtually 24 -7. Even spring breaks frequently we were there, it was me and those kids building all the scenery and they were in the shows. Very, very close in the department with those kids.
THIBODEAUX: Those are basically all the questions I have. Is there anything else you want to offer about President Johnson, the campus, theatre department?
MARCH: I wish we had somebody like Lyndon running today. (laughing)
THIBODEAUX: Yes, that would be interesting. Well thank you very much.
MARCH: Sure.
(End of interview)