Oral History Transcript - Patty Sullivan - April 16, 2008
Interview with Patty Sullivan
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: April 16, 2008
Location: San Marcos, Texas
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Interviewee: Patty Sullivan – A lifelong San Marcos resident, Patty Sherrill Sullivan and her husband Jake have been active community leaders for decades. Nominated by the late Congressman Jake Pickle, Jake Sullivan served as the San Marcos postmaster from 1967 until his retirement in 1982. Mrs. Sullivan was involved with the development of the LBJ Museum of San Marcos and continues as an honorary board member. Mr. and Mrs. Sullivan have been very active in university, community, and political activities.
Topics: Mrs. Sullivan’s community involvement
- President Johnson’s speech at President McCrocklin’s inauguration
- LBJ Picnics at Texas State University
- Mr. Sullivan’s appointment as postmaster in San Marcos
- LBJ Museum-San Marcos
- Lyndon Johnson’s legacy
(This transcript has been edited for nonessential words and conversation for the sake of clarity.)
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is April 16, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Patty Sullivan at San Marcos, Texas.
Mrs. Sullivan, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or a no?
PATTY SULLIVAN: Yes, I do.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much.
To get started, would you mind giving us some of the just background information about that you grew up in San Marcos? You’re a longtime resident of San Marcos. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
SULLIVAN: Yes. My grandparents, my parents, and myself were all born in San Marcos. I’ve been here for a long time. I’ve seen all the changes at the university from seven hundred students—and there are almost thirty thousand. And it’s been a real interesting time in my life. I’ve loved living here. It’s just a real great experience that I’ve had, and I like San Marcos very much.
THIBODEAUX: And you did attend Texas State—or Southwest Texas at that time?
SULLIVAN: Yeah. It was Southwest Texas. I did. I went actually to North—to Texas—TSEW in Denton, and then I came back to San Marcos and I did attend, I think, a year and a half here. That’s when there were about eight hundred students here. Then the veterans started coming back. And then Jake came back, my husband, and so we got married. So that ended my attendance as far as a student at Southwest Texas.
I’ve been real involved with now Texas State in many different positions, on boards and activities which I thoroughly enjoyed. But I am just real happy to be a part of Texas State, and I feel like I have been the last years - been on the foundation board and been on different projects. Of course, we love the sports, the athletic department and are proud of the way our university has come along and grown. So, yes, I’ve loved being a San Marcos native.
THIBODEAUX: And how long were you on the foundation board?
SULLIVAN: I was on the board for about thirty years, and it was an experience. I remember when we first got our—the first time we got a million dollars. We were all so excited, and it was just wonderful. And of course, through the years it’s been a great experience to see it grow, and it is tremendous now. And it’s been a real pleasure to have been involved with that. It’s been fun.
THIBODEAUX: You mentioned projects. What were some of the most outstanding projects the foundation board worked on, do you remember?
SULLIVAN: Money. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Just collecting money. (laughs)
SULLIVAN: Money. That was the main thing, trying to get donations and working on getting as many people involved in making some kind of donation and activity. That’s really what the foundation board is supposed to do, and we did. We’ve really seen it grow of course, and we’re real happy with it.
THIBODEAUX: And you’ve received some acknowledgement from the university, haven’t you?
SULLIVAN: When I retired from the foundation, they gave me a title of a lifetime membership on the board. And I’ve been real pleased about that because they keep me informed on things, their meetings and I can attend those things, and it’s just been a real pleasure that I’ve been able to do that.
Then I did receive way back there—turn it off. (laughs) (Recording stopped) Receiving the Key of Excellence in 1988 has been one of my favorite things I’ve obtained from there. And it was from at that time Southwest Texas State University Alumni Association. And this is one of my very favorite awards. I’m proud of this.
THIBODEAUX: You also received honors in San Marcos, have you?
SULLIVAN: (laughs) Well, yeah, through the years working on different committees. One of them was Woman of the Year. That’s been several years ago.
I’ve been on many boards. I was on the Parks and Recreation Board for the city when we had just the river really, and it’s—is that Parks and Recreation is a great part of the city today.
THIBODEAUX: I think I have the list somewhere that gives some about it. Beta Sigma Phi’s Woman of the Year in 1999.
SULLIVAN: That’s correct.
THIBODEAUX: And we mentioned Woman of the Year, and that was in ’88-’89.
SULLIVAN: That was from the city.
THIBODEAUX: And your service on the San Marcos Parks and Recreation Board for twenty-five years.
SULLIVAN: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: And twenty years as San Marcos Chamber of Commerce ambassador.
SULLIVAN: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: And a Hays County Economic Development Council. This is bad when I have to remind you how wonderful you are. (Both laugh)
SULLIVAN: Oh, thank you. Those were great times. I enjoyed all of them. But they come and go, and I’ve kind of forgotten some of those.
THIBODEAUX: You’ve done so many things.
SULLIVAN: Well, it’s been fun. I’ve enjoyed very much.
Pat Murdock has always kept great records. And when I retired from the foundation board, she pulled out a lot of records that I’d even forgotten about, which I appreciated. That was really neat, some of that she did. But I’ve been real fortunate. I’ve really enjoyed living in San Marcos and being a citizen and participating in a lot of things here.
Yeah, and I like politics too. I’ve liked city politics, state politics, and national politics. So that’s been fun for me too. And I guess that’s one reason that we’ve been such strong supporters of President Johnson. We started back—supporting him from the beginning and we worked and worked. To see him become president was wonderful.
THIBODEAUX: Well, you had mentioned that—did you first see President Johnson when he was here for a speech at Southwest Texas?
SULLIVAN: Correct.
THIBODEAUX: Can you tell us about that?
SULLIVAN: It was the first time he’d come back to San Marcos since being the president, and it was in the old boys basketball gym, bleachers on each side, and the bleachers were filled everywhere. It was so exciting when he entered the gym, everybody just—this was just the first time we’d ever had a president in San Marcos, and he stopped and visited with people he knew and then proceeded on up.
The main thing that day was after our air base had been closed for some time, the economy was pretty bad. And he announced that day that he was going to have a Job Corps in San Marcos, and we were all so excited, we clapped and we cheered. And later on, we said, “What is a Job Corps?” (laughs) And through the years, it’s been a real good thing for San Marcos. But that was a real important time in seeing him and it was exciting to have our president here.
Then of course, he came back to San Marcos and signed the education bill [Higher Education Act] on the campus here, and that was one of the great things that he did in his presidency as far as I’m concerned. That was exciting too to have him there and on the campus which was Southwest Texas State at that time.
And now we’re all learned to say Texas State real quick. (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: I know. I keep saying Texas State and I have to remember to refer back to Southwest Texas.
SULLIVAN: Yeah. I do too.
But I think that to have had a president graduate from our university—and the only college or university in Texas that’s had a president—that we’re all very fortunate here and very proud. I think it’s meant a lot to Texas State to have had him come back and the things that he did for this whole area, not only the university but for the towns, the counties, and the areas. He did many great things.
THIBODEAUX: And your husband, would you like—
SULLIVAN: Yes. I wanted to tell you about that. He was with the post office when he came back from the Marine Corps. And he worked from the very bottom up to the position where Congressman Jake Pickle nominated him for the postmaster position, and this is very exciting because those days the postmaster position was all political and after several months of people supporting us and writing letters, well, Congressman Pickle did nominate him. And the nice part is that President Johnson signed his nomination, his appointment as postmaster, December of 1967. He served as postmaster then until his retirement in, I think, 1982. And of course, that certificate of appointment is very important to us. We had it framed and we had it then. So that was an important situation that we had with President Johnson that’s been a real pleasure, and Jake loved the postal service at that time.
And it was a time when it was changing from political appointments to the postal service appointing their own postmasters, so actually, this certificate from President Johnson was one of the last ones that was signed as appointed postmasters. So that was exciting too.
THIBODEAUX: And I’m sorry to skip back to the university, you had mentioned the LBJ picnics.
SULLIVAN: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Did you attend any of those?
SULLIVAN: Yes. I guess we attended every one of them until last year when we had a health problem and didn’t get to go. But all those years when they first started, we attended all of them on the lawns of the president’s home. I remember particularly one time that President [Robert] Hardesty and Mrs. [Mary] Hardesty, they came up in a buggy drawn by—it was their entrance. That was real clever. It was real cute.
But they’ve always been fun. The crowds have been wonderful, and it’s a good recognition that we do have a president that graduated from Southwest Texas/Texas State. So they were fun. And we still have them, and I’m sure they will continue on.
THIBODEAUX: At any of those picnics, did you meet any of the Johnsons or any associates of President Johnson?
SULLIVAN: Usually there would be one of two of his children, Luci or—I don’t remember if other than Luci was here or not. I don’t believe that Mrs. Johnson ever—if she was, I don’t remember that, that she ever attended one of them. But it could’ve been. Of course, those were the last years—of course President Johnson was deceased—and I just don’t believe she was ever in attendance at any of those LBJ picnics. But always great recognition anyway.
THIBODEAUX: Let’s see. Oh, the museum. I almost skipped over that. So now we have the LBJ Museum in San Marcos on the square. Can you tell us how the original idea came from and how it kind of developed into the Museum today?
SULLIVAN: Actually, I wasn’t involved in it until after about three years after it was established, and it was Ed Mihalkanin, who was a professor at the university, that came up with the idea, as I remember it, and asked for people that were interested to get in touch with him, and a board was formed. And he’s still on the board, by the way, Ed Mihalkanin.
Through the years as they replaced board members as board members retire, well, they would obtain new members, and so I was on it for—I think it was about six years. I’m not real sure of those dates. But I did want to stay on until it was open, and we did open it in December of 2006. And it’s doing really well. It’s getting lots of tourist information—tourist people coming in for information and looking at it. And now working with classes from the different schools, bringing their classes in, so it’s really coming along and we are proud of it. I think it’s going to—it is an asset for San Marcos and for Texas State. And actually Texas State is helping a lot of times with different projects. I think it’s a true asset for San Marcos.
And now, we did have Luci and her son that came to the openings of the Museum, and Luci always responded in her great way, and they seemed very excited that we had the Museum open then and that it’s going. So that was fun having her come. And she did a nice job of thanking San Marcos and the people for getting it open. So that’s a real achievement I think for the town, but it took a lot of effort and lot of pleading, wanting money to get it to where it is now. And I think it’s come a long ways, so I’m proud of that.
THIBODEAUX: You mentioned one of the challenges was with the building itself.
SULLIVAN: Correct. It was an old building that had been a theater, and the inside of it was just—well, it had to be completely destroyed, the inside of it. But we had the walls because it was the center building on the square, and at the time that the county—it was owned by the county and they gave us a thirty-year contract on it. I don’t think the board was really aware—this was before my time on the board—that so much would have to be done to the building to ever get it qualified to open. So it took quite a few years, a lot of begging of money and so forth to do it, and when we did get it open and all, then we asked for an extension on the lease, and now there’s a fifty-year lease on it, a dollar a year I believe it is. But it’s a good location, and I think it’s a great place in San Marcos for people to get to and to see it. So I think it’s a very valuable thing for our community. And hopefully, people will continue to use it and see it and bring things that they have from the past with President Johnson. We’ve had a lot of things turned in. Bill Crook, who was the ambassador with President Johnson—
THIBODEAUX: He was also in charge of VISTA—
SULLIVAN: Yeah.
THIBODEAUX: —during the Great Society programs.
SULLIVAN: Yeah. And they’ve been very generous with bringing things to the Museum, as well as the Cape family. They’ve brought things, and the McCrocklin family. So, but then, there’s just a lot of people that have a lot of things that we feel like they’re going to eventually share with us, so that makes it nice. And it’s interesting to see how many families were directly involved with his presidency and what it did for the area. So, I think, as I said before, I think we’re just real fortunate in San Marcos to have had a president and had President Johnson be the one that graduated from our university.
THIBODEAUX: Well, that is interesting that so many of the things at the Museum came from local people.
SULLIVAN: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: That makes it very different.
SULLIVAN: Yeah. And they have wonderful things from their times that they’ve served with him, and pictures, letters, awards, and times of participation that they could share from serving under him. There’s a lot more out there that I’m sure that eventually the Museum—right now we don’t have the second floor open of the Museum. But it’s completed. The walls are complete, and the floors are in, but we don’t have the elevator yet. But there’s a space for the elevator. But when that gets open, I’m sure we’ll have a lot more things that will be brought in by people too.
THIBODEAUX: Well, the last question that I have that I like to ask those that have been around during the Johnson era, what do you think is President Johnson’s greatest legacy in this area—Central Texas area?
SULLIVAN: I think one that stands out, of course, was when he signed the education bill here on Southwest Texas campus. I think that was important to our area and of course to his whole presidency. Education was so important.
I think even going back—I guess this was back there before his presidency, but he did start the Pedernales Electric Co-op, which he continued to support, which was a great blessing for this part of the country.
I feel like he did many things. I think he helped with Canyon Lake. We know he got beautiful roads in to this area of the state. I feel that what he’s—his graduation from Texas State has been a real important thing for the university. I feel like those are some of the things I think were his main legacies. And of course, the Job Corps was something that none of us knew about but still exists, so that was really important for San Marcos, that that helped us turn the economy around. But these are some of the things I feel like were important to our part of the country.
THIBODEAUX: Well, thank you very much.
Is there anything else you have to add, something I may have missed?
SULLIVAN: I’m sure there’s a lot of other things if I could think of them, but this has been fun even to recall some of these things, and I think it’s great that Texas State is going to observe this year in his honor. I’m real pleased about that. Thank you.
THIBODEAUX: Well, thank you. (end of interview)