Oral History Transcript - Virginia Woods - March 4, 2008
Interview with Virginia Woods
Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux
Date of Interview: March 4, 2008
Location: Seguin, Texas
_____________________
Interviewee: Virginia Woods – A former Texas State student who attended periodically from 1934 to 1964, Mrs. Woods is the widow of Wilton Woods, a former White Star at Southwest Texas State Teacher’s College and long-time friend of Lyndon Johnson.
(This transcript has been edited for nonessential words and conversation for the sake of clarity.)
BARBARA THIBODEAUX: This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Celebration Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University. Today is March 4, 2008. My name is Barbara Thibodeaux. I am interviewing Virginia Woods at Seguin, Texas. (Recording stopped)
Mrs. Woods, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge your acceptance with a yes or a no?
VIRGINA WOODS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Thank you very much.
Mrs. Woods, can you tell me how Mr. Woods and Lyndon Johnson knew each other?
WOODS: Yes, they were childhood friends because Lyndon’s grandmother lived across the Blanco River from Wilton and his parents. So when Lyndon came to visit grandma, he was immediately playing with Wilton. So preschool children, they knew one another.
THIBODEAUX: So they had a friendship that spanned all of their lives?
WOODS: Yes. Yes.
THIBODEAUX: When did you attend Southwest Texas State Teachers College? Is that what it was called at that time?
WOODS: It was. I think 1934 or ’35 was about my time to be there.
THIBODEAUX: So you were there after Lyndon Johnson was there?
WOODS: Oh yes. Yes. In fact, he was working for Senator Kleberg when I met him.
THIBODEAUX: So you met your husband before you met LBJ?
WOODS: Yes, I did. Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: When did you meet your husband Mr. Woods?
WOODS: I met my husband at San Marcos college. He was working in San Antonio at that time, and he came home for the weekend to visit his parents and we double-dated. I dated a boy from my hometown and I don’t know who he had a date with, but it was a double date. And took his date home first and he got back in the car and he said to my date, “I’d like to date this girl sometime. Is that all right with you?” (Both laugh)
THIBODEAUX: That’s funny.
WOODS: It is kind of funny, but that’s how I met him when I was in college.
THIBODEAUX: And so you met Lyndon Johnson through your husband?
WOODS: Yes, I did.
THIBODEAUX: When was that?
WOODS: Oh, let’s see. It must have been about 1935. I had just started teaching and he said—when Wilton introduced me to him—said, “I bet you don’t even know who your congressman is.” And I said, “Oh, no, I really don’t because I don’t know whether it’s the one where I registered to vote or whether it’s the one where I’m teaching or the one where my parents just moved, but I can name all three.” I could at that time.
THIBODEAUX: So was he impressed?
WOODS: (laughs) He just stood there and looked at me, yes. Certainly wasn’t what he expected.
THIBODEAUX: So what was your impression of him at that first meeting?
WOODS: Warm and friendly. And very curious about people and what’s going on.
THIBODEAUX: Well, I think a lot of my questions have to deal with being at Texas State.
WOODS: Okay. Well, when I met him he was crossing the street going up the hill to the main building at San Marcos. That’s where I met him.
THIBODEAUX: Lyndon Johnson?
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: So he was just on campus for—
WOODS: He was on campus for the weekend.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, okay.
WOODS: Some event.
THIBODEAUX: And his family lived in San Marcos too, is that correct?
WOODS: Yes, they came and went. His mother was there when she had some of the children in school and then went back to Johnson City to the home.
THIBODEAUX: Did you meet Mr. Woods’ family before you were married?
WOODS: Yes, I did.
THIBODEAUX: I’ll check your knowledge to see how much you know about Mr. Woods and Mr. Johnson’s time on campus. I guess you would know that from things they have told you then. Were you aware of the White Stars when you were on campus? I think that was the organization.
WOODS: Yes, I was. I knew about the editor of the paper was a member of a group, and I later learned that it was the White Stars. So I knew that there was such a group active on the campus, but of course it was male so it didn’t affect me at all.
THIBODEAUX: And did you know that Lyndon Johnson and your husband had been a part of that organization?
WOODS: Not at that time.
THIBODEAUX: There’s been a lot of different stories about how the White Stars formed, and I was so intrigued when I read Hill Country [Janice Woods Windle, 1998] that your mother-in-law actually claimed that it was her original idea. (Both laugh) Do you think there’s any truth to that story?
WOODS: I wouldn’t doubt that she claimed it. I’m not saying that it’s true. (laughs) But I know my husband talked about the need for a political organization in San Marcos that they didn’t have at that time. And so these boys were very active politically long before they finished school, not just in the campus politics but local politics.
For instance, Westover School, okay, was on the west side over there, and the little children on the east side, where the schools are now, had to walk all the way through—beyond the cemetery to get to that west side school. And they said that there should be one on the southeast side too, and those boys worked—campaigned to get that school on that side.
They actually while they were still in school, they went the last thirty minutes of the voting time and voted for Wilton to be a trustee. And he was a trustee and had bought the land where the schools are now.
THIBODEAUX: That is an interesting story. He was a write-in candidate, wasn’t he?
WOODS: Yes. The last thirty minutes of the election.
THIBODEAUX: That was very interesting political strategy.
Another thing that your mother-in-law claimed credit for, which this whole story seems so amusing to me, was that she suggested that Wilton and the other White Stars date girls and try to get their votes. And I’ve read that story a couple of other places. It sounds like your husband must have been the most charming and handsomest man on campus (Woods laughs) if he dated all the girls that he is given credit for dating.
WOODS: Well, he didn’t single date until we started. Up until that time he dated different ones. So I think probably that’s the way it was. He didn’t go steady.
THIBODEAUX: That was considered to be one of their strategies on campus, the White Stars.
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: Such a big deal has been made about the White Stars, I think, mainly because it shows the beginning of Johnson’s political strategizing and training—political training. Would you describe the White Stars as just a friendly competitor on campus, or was it like a bitter rivalry of the Black Stars?
WOODS: I don’t think it was a bitter rivalry. The campus had been leaning always toward its athletic side, and so if there were any honors given, they were given to the athletics side of the campus. And they thought that they should be more evenly distributed, not that you should take away the luster from those who are participating but other things should be recognized, the debate society, for instance, the editorial staff. Those things they thought were equally important on campus and should receive equal honors, so that’s sort of what they were working for.
THIBODEAUX: Was there any animosity directed personally to LBJ or to Mr. Woods during or after their college years from maybe some of the Black Stars?
WOODS: I never felt it. I don’t know.
THIBODEAUX: So it was pretty friendly just, I guess, competition between the two on campus.
WOODS: Because, actually, the White Stars were very supportive of the athletic programs. It’s just that they wanted the other side to be recognized too, which they didn’t think it was being fairly recognized.
THIBODEAUX: Did you know LBJ by his nickname, Bull Johnson? Have you heard that name?
WOODS: I heard some people call him that. I didn’t.
THIBODEAUX: You don’t know how that came about?
WOODS: No, I don’t know how that came about. I just really don’t know.
THIBODEAUX: You’ve talked about Professor [Howard M.] Greene I know in previous interviews, so I hate to keep asking the same question. But would you, again, give your opinion? You know, what made Professor Greene such a stimulating teacher?
WOODS: He was a wonderful teacher. You’d sit in his classroom and you were well-aware—no, he just pictured history. (laughs) He was very good. And he always—he got to know his students, you know. He felt like he was caring about you when he was teaching you.
THIBODEAUX: Was that a typical relationship he had with students? I mean, other professors become so involved and friendly with their students.
WOODS: Some I can remember. Dr. [M. L.] Arnold was one that was equally interested and actively involved.
THIBODEAUX: He was in the history department?
WOODS: Yes. But there was—I’m trying to remember another one that I thought so much of and right now I can’t remember his name. I’m doing well to remember my name. (Both laugh)
THIBODEAUX: And that doesn’t even have a lot to do with age these days. I think people are just so busy.
Do you know what relationship Professor Greene and Lyndon Johnson had?
WOODS: I know that Professor Greene attended some of their meetings, but beyond that I just don’t know.
THIBODEAUX: Do you know any other professors who were involved with the White Stars?
WOODS: I would say Dr. Arnold, but I’m not sure about that. And if they attended meetings I doubt it. I think it was just a concern for students that they had that they were well-aware of their activities and what they were doing.
THIBODEAUX: Did Professor Greene that you know of influence your husband and LBJ to kind of reach out beyond the campus in activities like forming a Young Democrats, any chapters of that?
WOODS: Well, Professor Greene, even in his teaching you could tell that he was a democrat. (laughs) So maybe so.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember them being involved in the Young Democrats?
WOODS: I don’t know. See, they were well before my time, but I do know from other people telling me that they came to Seguin and organized a Young Democrats. They went to Beeville and they organized a Young Democrats. They went to Uvalde and they organized a Young Democrats. So those three I know of, and I’m sure there were others.
THIBODEAUX: So, as you were saying before, they were very politically active outside of campus?
WOODS: Oh yes. Yes. We visited in Lockhart one time and somebody was talking about how they had been there campaigning while they were still in school.
THIBODEAUX: One story that wasn’t clear to me in a book that was written about the White Stars—it was written by a White Star—I’m sorry.
WOODS: Oh yes, um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: I think you did—you read the information about Mr. Woods.
WOODS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Can you clarify what happened that he left school in 1930, like, two weeks before graduation? What that was about?
WOODS: No. I really don’t know what the problem was about. I know that he just—he never talked about it.
THIBODEAUX: That was just an amazing story to be so close to graduation and it sounded like it was—
WOODS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: —a principle that he was standing up for.
WOODS: I know that Mr. Greene—did he ever get to be doctor?
THIBODEAUX: No, he did not.
WOODS: —and Professor Arnold, those two were very supportive of him in whatever it was that was the problem.
THIBODEAUX: Nineteen thirty-four Tom Dunlap, another White Star, ran for a state legislator seat I think against Henry Kyle. Were you involved with Mr. Woods at that time?
WOODS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: Okay, good. So now I’m up-to-date. Can you describe how the White Stars organized to help him in that election?
WOODS: Well, they organized to pass out literature, and they organized to be at sessions where there were speeches so they could show their approval and applause of Dunlap. Now, what else they did I’m not—I know they had stickers on their cars, but I don’t know what else.
THIBODEAUX: Were the White Stars active in Mr. Woods’ election on the school board?
WOODS: Oh yes.
THIBODEAUX: I think you’ve told me that.
WOODS: Yes. They were.
THIBODEAUX: They were the ones that came the last thirty minutes to vote.
WOODS: They came the last thirty minutes of the vote. Yes, they were.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember the campaign for Welly Hopkins for state senator? Do you remember what your husband and LBJ’s role was in that election?
WOODS: I know that they went to some of the rural meetings where there were political speeches. Wilton passed out literature and Lyndon spoke.
THIBODEAUX: Congressman Pickle always talked about the employees of the National Youth Administration as the San Marcos Mafia because it seemed like there were so many people there from San Marcos. It’s my understanding White Stars and Black Stars worked there. Your husband worked for the National Youth Administration, didn’t he?
WOODS: Yes, he did.
THIBODEAUX: When was that and in what capacity?
WOODS: What capacity? I think he was in the capacity of—what do you call it where you do the hiring and firing?
THIBODEAUX: Personnel?
WOODS: Personnel. I think that was his department. He often went to see what was happening at the different sites. For instance, if they were putting in a roadside camp, he went to check on the youth that were working and the supervisors and that sort of thing.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember any other San Marcos people that worked for the National Youth Administration?
WOODS: Welborn Dunlop, let’s see. Was he a San Marcos fellow? (laughs) Willard Deason. Now, they were college students but they weren’t necessarily San Marcos people that worked for them. But Willard Deason had a very responsible position, and there was another one who was personnel.
THIBODEAUX: It was a long time ago. I just always thought it was so funny, Mr. Pickle’s description of the National Youth Administration.
When did you meet Lady Bird?
WOODS: I met Lady Bird after I married. I met Lyndon several times before, but Lady Bird had inherited property in one of the southern states from her aunt, I think it was. And she quite often when Lyndon would be coming to these activities, she would be there for some reason supervising, managing the property and didn’t attend. So I didn’t meet her as early as I did him.
THIBODEAUX: So were they already married at that point when you met them?
WOODS: Yes, they were married, but they married about a year before Wilton and I did.
THIBODEAUX: So did you socialize? Did you and Mr. Woods socialize with them or go out together?
WOODS: Not in that term. We went to all of the ANO meetings where they were and that sort of thing, we saw them then. And occasionally—two or three times—met for dinner, but that’s rare.
THIBODEAUX: Moving on to when LBJ first ran for Congress. I’d heard that Mr. Woods resigned or took a leave of absence from his job. Was he working for the National Youth Administration at the time?
WOODS: Yes, he was working with the National—no, he was working for the Texas Railroad Commission.
THIBODEAUX: And he’d take a leave of absence?
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: How long was that, do you remember?
WOODS: About six weeks. In fact, it was when Lyndon decided that he wanted to run for office, he called all of his friends together to come to Johnson City to meet on the front porch at their parents’ home. And Wilton and I hadn’t been married very long, and I was still teaching. So he called us altogether and we were there on that porch listening. His aunt said, you know, “Well, I don’t have any money for your campaign, but I’ll give next month’s rent.” And Willard Deason said, “I don’t have any money, but I have a new car,” and the offers were things like that. My husband said, “Well, I’ll take a leave of absence and drive you.” Uck, you know, that’s your- (laughs).
THIBODEAUX: How did you feel about that? (Both laugh)
WOODS: Well, as I said, I was still teaching, but I did know that—no salary coming in on that side of the family during that time.
THIBODEAUX: That was kind of a shock. So what was his role in the campaign?
WOODS: He drove the car that Lyndon—Willard Deason loaned him his new car, so Wilton drove the new car. And the editor of the paper from Stockdale rode with them and introduced them to all the editors as they went to each town.
THIBODEAUX: Is that Sam Fore?
WOODS: Sam Fore.
THIBODEAUX: Do you know how Lyndon Johnson knew Sam Fore?
WOODS: I think he met Sam Fore when he was working for Kleberg, but I don’t know beyond that. It could’ve been otherwise.
THIBODEAUX: It sounds like Mr. Fore helped him along on that campaign.
WOODS: Oh, yes, he did. He came and introduced him to all and he would say, “Now remember, you shake hands with the cook as well as the clerk.” (laughs)
THIBODEAUX: Did Mr. Fore help him on any other campaigns? Was that the major one?
WOODS: That was the major one, but I think whenever Lyndon had a campaign Mr. Fore was right there.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe Lady Bird’s role in that first campaign?
WOODS: Very—she attended some functions, but she was not active at all, and I don’t know whether I just wasn’t present when she was or—but, no, I didn’t see her that much at that first campaign.
THIBODEAUX: Do you know how her role changed in subsequent elections?
WOODS: I know that after she held the office for him for a while she was much more active. She developed a public image that she hadn’t had—or self-image I think really that she hadn’t had before.
THIBODEAUX: Do you think she pushed the limits on what was appropriate for women to do in politics?
WOODS: I know that when I had the tea here for Lady Bird that there was tremendous objection by the Democratic Party woman. She thought that I was out of line.
THIBODEAUX: Why was that?
WOODS: I don’t know. I think it was stepping on her territory, like she was the one who—
THIBODEAUX: So that was a good example of small town politics?
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: That is a remarkable story about the tea party, and I know you’ve told it before, but do you mind repeating the story about Mrs. Johnson?
WOODS: I had invited different people that I knew in town that I thought would be interested in meeting her, and it represented church groups and Girl Scout leaders, Boy Scout leaders, and one of the Boy Scout mothers, that sort of thing. But it was definitely the women of the town that I invited to come meet her. I was dressing for the party and the phone rang, and the maid came running to me and she said, “Oh, Mrs. Woods, she’s had a wreck!” And that was right out where the road divides, the one going down to South Texas and the other coming into Seguin, that’s where that car went off the road and turned over.
But she came here and bathed and put on the clothes that she was going to wear that night when she was to make another speech, and she stood right here poised and met those others after that wreck, turned over, you know. Bound to have been a totally demoralizing thing.
THIBODEAUX: That is amazing. Anybody else would’ve been totally shook up.
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: And then she went on to give a speech in San Antonio.
WOODS: She went on and gave a speech that night. My husband drove her to San Antonio because the car was a total wreck. And the woman who was driving her was in the hospital, but my husband took her to San Antonio and she made a radio speech for Lyndon and then met him at some other meeting where she had to shake hands with people.
THIBODEAUX: So by 1948 she was an active campaigner?
WOODS: Oh, yes, she was.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, going back to her running LBJ’s office, I think that was in 1941. So how do you think she convinced people to sign the petition? Or how did you convince people to sign the petition? [Lady Bird Johnson ran Senator Johnson’s office when he served in the Navy 1941-1942.]
WOODS: Most of them were democrats. (Both laugh) You’d go around and you just take this paper and you say, “I would like for you to endorse my friend Lyndon Johnson,” and, Oh yeah, sure. (Both laugh)
THIBODEAUX: And you were involved in that, correct? You took the petition around to get it signed?
WOODS: Um hmm. Oh, now, when I went—the one to get Lady Bird to take over his office, that was in Austin, and I went to each business. Went down the east side of Congress, went to two streets down the east side of Congress, each one of the businesses there and asked. And they just looked at me and, Oh, yeah.
THIBODEAUX: Do you remember how many signatures you had to have?
WOODS: No. I think it was just a matter of how many could you get.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, okay.
WOODS: Mostly getting people to make a commitment that they wouldn’t complain if she was there.
THIBODEAUX: And you were living in Austin at that time?
WOODS: Yes, I was.
THIBODEAUX: So did you have any relationship with her while she was running the office?
WOODS: Well, no, because basically she was running it in Washington.
THIBODEAUX: Okay. So you didn’t see her very much at the time.
I know you’ve had a very long relationship with Lady Bird Johnson. I was always curious—I haven’t read this anywhere—since LBJ was just consumed by his work and just threw himself into the work twenty-fours a day, you know, how did Lady Bird deal with that?
WOODS: Well, she had her life too. So I think they just respected one another and went their way.
The phone would ring sometimes two or three o’clock in the morning and it was Lyndon. He would say, “Wilton, I’ve got to talk about this problem with somebody I can trust.” And he would be talking about some political thing that he just—it had two sides to it and how should he handle it. And he just needed someone he could talk it over with.
THIBODEAUX: It does seem like Lyndon Johnson always needed a sounding board to work out things.
WOODS: Um hmm. Well, I think people do sometimes. If they can just talk to somebody, it solves problems. The person they’re talking to doesn’t have to give solutions, just has to listen so that they can work it through.
THIBODEAUX: Did he have that same relationship with Lady Bird, do you think?
WOODS: I think he did.
THIBODEAUX: How did he depend on her, or what did he depend on her to do?
WOODS: I can’t answer that. I just really don’t know, but I know that she was very supportive of him and that strengthened him too.
THIBODEAUX: I read in a couple of places in 1940 about Mr. Woods was just involved in an IRS investigation of Brown and Root that led to questions about campaign contributions. I know that Mr. Woods was not involved in anything illegal, but I was just wondering how did that affect him? Did it dampen any chances of him ever running for public office, or, I mean, did it have a negative effect?
WOODS: I don’t think it did. It was a problem but—
THIBODEAUX: It just kind of ran its course?
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: So did that alter or affect his relationship with Lyndon Johnson?
WOODS: I don’t think so. No, I don’t think so.
THIBODEAUX: What role did you and your husband play in subsequent elections?
WOODS: Well, my husband was always very active in politics. If he thought somebody was the right candidate, he was out working for him. And even now, we’ll have the yard lined with plasterboards advertising different people running for office because we are to endorse and work with them to get the best government we can.
THIBODEAUX: I think it was in the 1948 election that your husband organized the Hays and Guadalupe counties for Johnson’s senatorial bid.
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: So do you know what he did in that election, what kind of work?
WOODS: No, I don’t know exactly.
THIBODEAUX: Did the White Stars remain active in Lyndon Johnson’s campaigns?
WOODS: Yes.
THIBODEAUX: So they were always involved in organizing?
WOODS: They were always involved in supporting him, not necessarily out beating the bushes. But they would talk to their friends but not necessarily out passing out literature or talking, you know.
THIBODEAUX: Did your husband go to Washington to visit Lyndon Johnson when he was in the Congress?
WOODS: A couple of times.
THIBODEAUX: Were they just social visits or did he go in an advisory capacity?
WOODS: No, I don’t think so. Of course, Lyndon often used him as a sounding board but mostly to listen.
THIBODEAUX: That’s a good job.
WOODS: Um hmm. But I know Wilton rode with him one time to Washington. He went from Austin to Washington. I guess that’s when he was going to work with the Census Bureau and he had to be at training. Anyhow, he went with Lyndon, and Lady Bird had gone to Mississippi—or whichever state it was. I’ve forgotten whether it was Mississippi or Georgia where she had property. But she’d gone to take care of the property, so Wilton and the maid for the girls went with Lyndon. Well, they came to one place just inside of Louisiana and they were going to order food at the drive-in, and they said, “We don’t serve niggers.”
THIBODEAUX: Oh, the maid? I mean, the girls’ nanny?
WOODS: Um hmm, the maid was in the backseat, see, so they wouldn’t wait on—they wouldn’t send a—what do you call them? We used to call them hoppers—they wouldn’t send one to wait on them because there was a Negro in the car. And Lyndon jumped out of that car and slammed that door, and the maid got out too and she went around to the back. But Lyndon raised cane that they weren’t serving just because there was a black woman in the car. But he said that was one of the experiences that they had together that he talked about.
THIBODEAUX: So did they have to go to another place to eat? Do you remember?
WOODS: The maid went to the kitchen and got hers from the kitchen and they went somewhere else and got theirs.
THIBODEAUX: That was a sign of the times.
Did your husband make any additional trips to Washington after Johnson became president in 1963?
WOODS: I think he went once, but I’m not sure. I just have forgotten.
THIBODEAUX: This is just a question about the—
WOODS: Oh, we went to the dinner when he was president. I have the picture somewhere. I think it’s in here. (goes to retrieve picture) Okay. This is in Washington.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, thank you.
WOODS: That was at a dinner at the White House in the garden.
THIBODEAUX: Could you point out Mr. Woods? (Woods complies) Is that you?
WOODS: That’s me.
THIBODEAUX: Oh, how terrific. Can you identify anybody else at the table?
WOODS: (gestures) This was the preacher from Austin, Methodist preacher from Austin.
THIBODEAUX: So it was kind of a Texas delegation?
WOODS: Yes, at that table.
THIBODEAUX: Was this at an inauguration or another event?
WOODS: Oh, no. It was just friends from Texas sort of thing. Just sort of the people that elected Lyndon. Thank you.
THIBODEAUX: I know that you and your husband had been involved in the Democratic Party for quite a long time. Do you just have an opinion? Was Lyndon Johnson a major force in the Texas Democratic Party before he was president?
WOODS: I think he was a strong influence. In fact, I think that the White Stars from San Marcos did a lot of influencing the vote. They went to—I know they talked about when they came here and held a rally and they went to Beeville and held a rally and they went to Corpus Christi and held a rally, now, that—that was White Stars. And I remember a big one in Waco. So, yes, they were very influential in democratic politics.
THIBODEAUX: Did you and your husband attend either Kennedy’s inauguration or Johnson’s inauguration?
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: Can you describe your relationship with the Johnson family during Johnson’s years in Washington? Did you visit very much? Say when they came down to Texas?
WOODS: When they came to Texas my husband usually went to see them. I didn’t necessarily go.
THIBODEAUX: So he would go out to the ranch to visit?
WOODS: Yes, we went out several times to the ranch.
THIBODEAUX: Did you have a relationship with Mrs. Johnson? I guess more of an active relationship after they retired?
WOODS: We would go to different things and meet but beyond that not necessarily so. But the last time I saw her, she’d reached that stage where she couldn’t speak and she didn’t see very well either. But anyhow, I went up to her and I said, “Lady Bird, this is Virginia Woods,” and she said she knew.
THIBODEAUX: Texas State—now, Texas State—I always have a hard time remembering when the university changed its names. They have a common experience theme every year, and the theme for this coming year—one of the themes is civic responsibility. And it reminds me of the White Stars, what you were just saying about how influential they were in the party. But it looks like most of the White Stars have a lifelong history of being involved in public service either through their employment or volunteering, like your husband did, of course. Just how do you think that this group viewed civic responsibility? Were there any, like, maybe common threads of how they became like this? And can you tie it back to just—
WOODS: I think maybe their unity as an organization actually grew out of their desire to be in public service or to make a difference in how the country reacted to situations because all of them that joined or were asked to join showed that same attitude toward public service. They served in some civic capacity one way or another in their life.
THIBODEAUX: I think one thing that’s interesting about Lyndon Johnson is the people he surrounded himself with. They all seemed to have been so civic-minded and so passionate about it.
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: I wasn’t sure if it was just the times that they grew up in.
WOODS: I think the time they grew up in had a lot of influence on them because they were kids who pitched watermelons into the boxcars to get money to go to school. That kind of hard work was the background for all of them, and they just wanted to make the government and the world a little better.
THIBODEAUX: Which they did.
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: In your opinion, what do you think is LBJ’s greatest legacy in the Central Texas area? What do you think most people remember him for?
WOODS: He finished up the problems of the Mansfield dams, except the tail end is just done this year.
THIBODEAUX: Isn’t that amazing?
WOODS: He was very much interested in the water conservation in Texas and the water usage in Texas, and so the dams were a part of not just his legacy but the one ahead of him, Mansfield, I guess. But they both—that was one of the things that they were interested in, conservation of resources.
THIBODEAUX: And that is still a very discussed problem today, especially the water resources.
WOODS: Um hmm.
THIBODEAUX: Has your impressions or opinions of Lyndon Johnson changed over the years since you’ve met him?
WOODS: I don’t think so. I always thought of him as being about the most outgoing person that I knew. He always reached out to you. And I don’t think that’s changed.
THIBODEAUX: It was always interesting how he kept tabs with his friends throughout all those years.
WOODS: Um hmm. He depended on them, and he used them for sounding boards.
THIBODEAUX: This is another opinion question. What do you think that Texas State students should take away with them after this coming year with the focus on the legacy of LBJ? And what do you think that they should know about him and maybe that era?
WOODS: Well, the era in which he was in school was a really desperate time, and so I think that that time period on that youthful age had a lot to do with his realizing that government could help or could hinder in people’s lives. And he wanted to be of the helpful kind.
THIBODEAUX: I don’t have anymore direct questions. Are there any other stories that you recall with Lyndon Johnson or the Johnson family?
WOODS: The one I think about is when my kids were little and the plane flew over. They were out in the yard and this plane flew over and said, “Hello, down there.” (laughs) And they came running to the house as fast as they could because that big bird might get them. But he landed over there and then he came over and talked to them.
THIBODEAUX: How funny. Was that on a campaign or he just happened to be passing through?
WOODS: Oh, I think he was a campaign but passing through to some other place.
THIBODEAUX: That is funny. And I heard that he used to fly by and throw out his Stetson hat.
WOODS: Well, just before he landed, he would do that. He would through out his—yes, he did that. He did that in this yard one time.
THIBODEAUX: So what about the relationship between him and your mother-in-law?
WOODS: Well, she always remembered him as being a little boy who had to be disciplined often because he got into things, but she had so much respect for his grandmother and his mother that—in fact, her mother did baby-sitting for her, you know.
THIBODEAUX: I didn’t know that.
WOODS: Their older children—Lyndon’s mother was often their baby-sitter.
THIBODEAUX: Well, is there anything else you would like to add?
WOODS: I can’t think of anything.
THIBODEAUX: Well, I appreciate it, especially about that story about them driving through and stopping for a meal. I had not heard that one before. That was a good one. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate— (end of interview)