Oral History Transcript - Steve Zinkgraf - May 23, 2008

Interview with Dr. Steve Zinkgraf

 

Interviewer: Barbara Thibodeaux

Date of Interview: May 23, 2008

Location: LBJ Museum, San Marcos, Texas

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Interviewee: Steve Zinkgraf, Ph.D. – Dr. Zinkgraf, founder and CEO of Sigma Breakthrough Technologies, Inc., is a 1970 Texas State graduate who served in the Student Senate during his college years.  The San Marcos business who has taught at Texas State University recalls President Johnson’s visit to the Student Senate in the late 1960s.

 

Topics: President Johnson’s visit to the Student Senate, antiwar activity on campus, Alexander Haig story about Lyndon Johnson, legacy

 

(The following transcript has been edited for nonessential words for clarity reasons.)

 

BARBARA THIBODEAUX:  This recording is part of the LBJ Centennial Oral History Project sponsored by Texas State University.  Today is May 23, 2008.  My name is Barbara Thibodeaux.  I am interviewing Dr. Steve Zinkgraf at the LBJ Museum in San Marcos, Texas.

 

Dr. Zinkgraf, even though you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the release pertaining to this interview in writing, will you also verbally acknowledge you acceptance with a yes or no.

 

STEVE ZINKGRAF:  Yes.

 

THIBODEAUX:  Thank you very much.

 

Dr. Zinkgraf, are you from San Marcos originally?

 

ZINKGRAF:  It is an interesting question because my father was an Air Force officer and he was stationed here when I was very young at the Gary Air Force Base, before it was Camp Gary.  And so from about three until six I lived here.  I learned how to swim in the San Marcos River.  I went to school in the lab school at the university.  I saw my very first theater production at the university theater and I was just fascinated that I could actually meet and talk to Hansel and Gretel.  So even from an early age the university and the town had a big impact on me.  I came back as a student later and got my degree, and both my kids, a daughter and a son, got their degrees here.  Then I ended up being a faculty member here.  So I have been in and out a lot.  Now I live here.  I’ve lived here for about the last twelve years.

 

THIBODEAUX:  When did you attend Southwest Texas, was it Teachers College or State College?

 

ZINKGRAF:  Well, then it was Southwest Texas. I think it was Texas Teachers College, and then it became Southwest Texas College, and maybe it was university at that time.  I can’t remember.  I had a lot of t-shirts. (laughs)  And I wasn’t really very well with it when I was in undergraduate school.

 

THIBODEAUX:  No. (laughs) Most of us weren’t.  Do you remember what years you attended college?

 

ZINKGRAF:  Yes, 1966 to 1970.  I graduated in the summer of ’70.

 

THIBODEAUX:  And when did you have an opportunity to meet President Johnson on campus?

 

ZINKGRAF:  I was thinking about that.  It was either the tail end of 1969 or during 1970.  I had been sort of elected to the Student Senate because there was a vacancy and it was usually easy to fill.  So I got into the Student Senate, or wandered into the Student Senate.  I was not a big politician, but I somehow got into this big caucus about getting rid of the football team.  There were several different factions at that time at the university.  There were the hippies because the Vietnam War was going on.  My biggest concern was what my draft number was back then.  There were hippies, there were cowboys who we called goat ropers, and then there were the frat rats, and then independents.  So we had a coalition of people from the hippie group, the cowboy group, and the frat rat group to get rid of the football team because we realized that a large part of our student fees were going to that and hardly any of us went to the football games.  So we thought it could be spent in better ways.  So that’s a long story, the set-up.

 

We had a Student Senate meeting and a guest was there, LBJ.  He was older and he had gray hair, and he just kind of sat on stage, but off in a corner, just listening.  So with a great deal of zeal, I presented this bill which immediately got voted down. I sat down.  I was watching him.  He was just watching; not saying anything, not taking any notes – just taking it all in. 

 

As a student I was worried about what I was going to do when I got out with the Vietnam War going on.  I ended up going in the Navy as an officer, and I never really thought about him too much.  But there he was.  And then at the end of the session, he was asked to make some comments.  And I tell you he didn’t say much, he didn’t talk very long, but his words still echo in my mind.  I still, when I get into leadership situations, remember what he said because it was so simple.  He got up and he said, “I’ve been watching y’all do the politics.”  He said, “ Y’all don’t know anything about politics.”  He said, “Politics is very simple.  First you have to decide if what you want to do is right, and once you decide that and you decide it is right, then the next step is simple.  You run over anybody who gets in your way.”  Then he pretty much sat down.  And I thought that makes sense.  I never did that.  I never was in a position to do that.  But now, several times over the last 35 years that I have lived, I have been in a position where I had the choice of running over somebody or not, and I thought, is this right and if it is, then I would run them over.  So that was pretty much my story.  But I think it was true wisdom.  He really did politick that way.  He was known to be a bulldog on things.  But he made it so simple and actually attractive to me.

 

THIBODEAUX:  Do you have any feelings about President Johnson because of the Vietnam War at that time?  Was there any anti-war activity going on campus?

 

ZINKGRAF:  Well, I think at that time Southwest Texas was probably an anomaly in the war activism.  I remember one demonstration and here is what it looked like.  There were a bunch of hippies who were protesting the war, and there were probably about 20 of them.  Surrounding them was a group of about 60 – 100 goat ropers or cowboys, and the hippies were trying to protest and the goat ropers were telling them just to “shut the hell up.”  (laughs) And that was the big demonstration on campus.  We weren’t really linked into that.  We watched it on the news.  You know my father was a military man so I was really planning on going into the military.  I wanted to go into the Air Force, but I flunked that entrance test and passed the Navy one so I ended up going into the Navy.  But other than that, I do remember that it didn’t appear that Johnson was really at all comfortable with leading anything with the war. 

 

I think we had a float, an inner fraternity, inner sorority council float contest.  Some of the floats and some of the displays on campus had to do with escalation; he was trying to escalate the war and we were trying to escalate Southwest Texas.  But that was really, to tell you the truth, about it for me because I wasn’t really conscious during those years. (laughs)

 

THIBODEAUX:  You must have touched a chord in his heart though because your efforts to get rid of the football team pretty well correlates with what he tried to do when he was in college – the focus of the football team, it got all the money.

 

ZINKGRAF:  Right.

 

THIBODEAUX:  Fees going to the football team and his forming, well, being part of that group that formed the White Stars to try to get money away from athletics and to other parts of activities.

 

ZINKGRAF:  And as an officer, I could remember back to what he was saying there and it helped me to make tough decisions as an officer.  So I think the whole thing might have been 30 seconds or a minute, but I thought there must have been something special about that for me to stick with it.  I use that story all the time, in every executive training session we have where we are teaching executives how to do what we are trying to get them to do.  I don’t know if they appreciate the story, but I love telling it. (laughs)

 

THIBODEAUX:  That’s a good story.  Do you have anything else to offer?

 

ZINKGRAF:  Yeah.  This is a little, not directly associated with LBJ, but I was on an interview show, televisions show.  We were taping a show on my company and what we did, with Alexander Haig.  He was a big part of the administration.  He said the first thing, “I see you’re from Texas.”

 

I said, “That’s right.”

 

And he said, “You know, Lyndon use to tell me all about Texas.  And he would come up to me and say ‘Alex, do you know why Texas is such a great state?’”  And I would say, “No, Lyndon, I don’t.  Can you tell me.  And he’d say, ‘It’s the German stock.  That’s what makes Texas so great.’”  (laughs) I felt really proud of LBJ because there is a president of the United States and he is telling people why Texas is such a great state.  Very cool.

 

THIBODEAUX:  Yes it is.

 

ZINKGRAF:  So another short story, but another way LBJ, the concept of LBJ has popped up in my life where, I think as I mentioned, I really, really want to get into him in more detail and find out the good things.  I know that there are some crazy things that he did  and things not so model-leader like, but had it not been for Vietnam he would probably, easily, go down as one of the greatest presidents we ever had because of his ability to get things done.

 

THIBODEAUX:  This is kind of a man on the street question that I ask everybody – just your opinion.  What do you think is LBJ’s greatest legacy nationally or as it applies to this community or area?

 

ZINKGRAF:  I think, now that you bring it up, it’s kind of free association because one, I think of LBJ, I think of a real politician that says, what’s good for my constituents, what’s good for my people.  I watched the first part of a video program on LBJ and I never realized that he was totally instrumental in bringing electricity to West Texas, and if you go out to West Texas, there hadn’t been much else happening.  It’s hard to even get cell phone reception, but what an impact that had and he got it by partnering up with the Republicans.  He did what he had to do for the people.  I’ve since gotten really interested in Shakespeare and Shakespeare acting because Shakespeare’s ability to connect with everybody in the world.  I think LBJ also connected to everybody, and I think he is the model politician.  You don’t see that much today.

 

THIBODEAUX:  I think that is a very good observation.  Dr. Zinkgraf, is their anything else you have to offer, any other stories to share?

 

ZINKGRAF:  No, I’m just excited about this oral history.  LBJ has been underplayed as the great leader that he was.  I am tickled to be involved in this.

 

THIBODEAUX:  Well great.  You certainly made a wonderful contribution.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me today.  Thank you.  (end of interview)