NASA Vincze, John - May 24, 1999
Interview with Jon Vincze
Interviewer: James W. Head
Date of Interview: May 24, 1999
Location: Vincze home, Sun City, Texas
This interview was conducted by James Head on May 24, 1999 in the living room of Mr. John Vincze's home in Sun City, Texas.
The surrounding sounds were construction workers working outside Mr. Vincze's home. Additionally, a loud clock went off periodically.
HEAD: I am interviewing Mr. John Vincze. This is Monday morning May 24th. It is approximately 11:25. Mr. Vincze worked...well, how long did you work for NASA Mr. Vincze?
VINCZE: Well, I worked there about 30 years. So, I joined NASA in 1964 when they first moved into the facility there at Clear Lake City. And, I came from Denver, Colorado where I was working, and, I don't know if you want any background information.
HEAD: I would like to know where did you go to college?
VINCZE: I went to college at Clarks College, which was part of St. Louis University, and I had a BS in aeronautical engineering.
HEAD: What made you decide to major in aeronautical engineering?
VINCZE: I had always been interested in airplanes and space and all of that, mostly airplanes. Of course, space wasn't there yet.
HEAD: And then, after you got your degree what did you do?
VINCZE: I went to work for a number of aerospace companies and like before I joined NASA, I was in Denver. And at that time I worked for an outfit called Stanley Aviation, which built the escape capsules for the B-58 bomber, built by Convair, out of Fort Worth. [Texas]
HEAD: I am not familiar...
VINCZE: You are not familiar with that?
HEAD: I am not familiar with the B-58.
VINCZE: Well, anyway we had ejection seats on there that would encapsulate the pilot and protect him during the bailout. And that's what this little ole' company did for Convair. And NASA came to town interviewing and I had experience in parachute systems.
HEAD: About when did they...about when did NASA recruit you?
VINCZE: Well this was [19]60...’64. When they were building up...building up from Mercury and building up for Gemini and Apollo.
HEAD: And so they offered you a job?
VINCZE: So the Gemini is a parachute recovery system so they offered me a job and I packed up the wife [and] two kids and went to Houston.
HEAD: Had you ever been to Houston before?
VINCZE: Nope!
HEAD: So going from Denver to Houston, did you have any idea what you were in for?
VINCZE: [laughing] well, it was quite a change, but you know...
HEAD: And besides, you weren't even living in Houston, I don't guess, because Clear Lake City was south of Houston, and what did you find?
VINCZE: They had just completed some housing there and so we moved in close to the Space Center in an apartment and then as soon as the house was finished we moved into a house. They were starting to build subdivisions around for the people and people were all coming in there, building up.
HEAD: OK, so how would you describe Clear Lake City in the spring or summer of 1964?
VINCZE: Well, a lot different then, then it is now. Other than the houses in Clear Lake City and, as I said before, NASA road 1 was just a little two-lane asphalt road...and I think there was one hotel on the strip then, and that was about it. And, they were building several others, but, it was...there wasn't much there.
HEAD: As far as places to eat?
VINCZE: No, there wasn't much there at all.
HEAD: There wasn't?
VINCZE: No.
HEAD: And things to do?
VINCZE: No, nothing. It is pretty far out back then you know. The nearest shopping center was back towards town. I think it was called Gulfgate Mall. It was...I don't know, maybe twenty miles back in towards town.
HEAD: And so that is where your wife went...
VINCZE: That is where we had to go for the hospital and my wife was pregnant when we moved down there, and my baby daughter was born in July of that year. And we almost had her on the freeway going up to the hospital. [laughing]
HEAD: Is that right...the old Gulf freeway?
VINCZE: Yeah, the old Gulf freeway.
HEAD: Well now...as far as moving from Denver to south of Houston...what did your wife and kids think about the temperature that first summer...do you remember?
VINCZE: Well...it was hot and we weren't use to it you know, but that goes with the territory.
HEAD: What was your first job at NASA?
VINCZE: I worked in the Gemini program office and it was just building up then.
HEAD: Where exactly was the office? I mean, was everything there at the Space Center?
VINCZE: Yeah, it was right there in building one. We had one floor. It was a fairly small office, not too many people.
HEAD: About how many, do you remember?
VINCZE: Ah...probably about 100 total. We were fairly small. Of course, Apollo was building up then so most of the effort and hiring was on the Apollo project.
HEAD: What exactly did you do?
VINCZE: OK, I worked in the spacecraft office, which was part of the program office which was managed by Chuck Matthews, who was our program manager. And, my specific job in Gemini was the...what we called the parachute landing systems. So, along with McDonald Douglas, and their contractor, who was Northrop Ventura, who actually built the parachutes, sewed the fabric up, you know. So we went through the designs and then the qualification of the recovery system.
HEAD: Were there any problems with designing that parachute?
VINCZE: No, it was pretty straightforward. The interesting part was going down to El Centro and testing them.
HEAD: And where was that?
VINCZE: El Centro, California is right outside of San Diego to the east, maybe 100 miles out in the desert.
HEAD: And how did you test those?
VINCZE: We had what we called boilerplates, which are simulated replicas of the spacecraft, and we packed the parachutes in there with us. And then the Air force provided [very loud clock goes off...very difficult to hear] a cargo plane. I think it was C-131. I'm not sure, anyway we would just throw them out the back and then deploy the chute with timers and everything.
HEAD: How far did they drop that? I mean, how could they test that? Because, obviously it would have been different than dropping out of space.
VINCZE: The main chute...I forget now what altitude we would go. It...part of the system...now we are getting technical and I don't know how far you want to go.
HEAD: That is OK.
VINCZE: We get into...there was a drag chute which they deployed at high altitudes, while the capsule was still supersonic, for stabilization. And there we used, I think it was a [F]104...a fighter plane, and we had what we called a bomb [test vehicle], and he would dive this thing supersonic from high altitudes and then he deployed his chute that way.
HEAD: And did you encounter any problems that you didn't expect?
VINCZE: Well, one time the chute didn't come out and the bomb came in and made a big crater in the ground. [laugher]
HEAD: That was a problem. Did you ever test those...did they test those with any living thing?
VINCZE: No.
HEAD: They never did?
VINCZE: No, no.
HEAD: The first time then that...well, what was the first living thing then that ever had to ride in that...to test if the chutes ever actually worked?
VINCZE: I forgot who flew the first Gemini. We would have to look it up in the history. But, oh it worked.
HEAD: And so they knew that it was going to work and there wouldn't be a problem?
VINCZE: It was very similar to Mercury which, you know, went before. It was a parachute recovery system, also. And, you know, Apollo was the same way.
HEAD: From this project, then what did you do after?
VINCZE: Then we moved over into Apollo which was building up and then we were forming the Lunar Module office and that's where the people that left the Gemini program went to different places. And, I happened to end up in the Lunar Module projects office. And doing about the same thing, except we were looking after complete spacecrafts there, what we called project engineering. We had a couple of guys assigned and we would follow each individual module as it was starting to be built all the way through and then down to the Cape [Kennedy Space Center, Florida].
HEAD: As far as cost on this, where do you...
VINCZE: No, we were not involved in cost at all.
HEAD: Were you ever concerned about the cost?
VINCZE: No, because there were other people within the project, who...that was their responsibility.
HEAD: You pretty much had a budget...or, did you have a budget that you had to follow?
VINCZE: Oh, there was a budget that the program followed, but we never got into that, you know.
HEAD: Now where exactly was the module built?
VINCZE: Built by Grumman, up in Bethpage, New York.
HEAD: What was NASA...how was NASA involved in the actual building of it?
VINCZE: Well it was just the same in all respects. They had the program office which managed the program. Then you had a lot of support people. There was a big engineering department at NASA then that had people who were specialists in certain things, like propulsion or guidance, and they were helping the design.
HEAD: They gave Grumman the specifications?
VINCZE: Yeah, you give spec and then they build this thing.
HEAD: So you would actually go up to the New York...
VINCZE: Yeah, we used to travel to and from.
HEAD: What problems did Grumman have building this module? What was the major...
VINCZE: No, I don't remember any big problems. I am sure there were problems as you go along...always...but, there was nothing real big or major.
HEAD: As far as landing something on the moon this size, they didn't know...they never encountered any problem or anything that was unexpected?
VINCZE: No, they all worked as designed.
HEAD: I thought that I had heard where they thought that this might actually sink.
VINCZE: Well, nobody really knew back in the early days what the surface of the moon was actually like, but, by the time we flew the LM [lunar module] they had several unmanned landings on the moon and been mapped, and the whole bit. They knew pretty well where they were going and what they wanted to do.
HEAD: How did they transfer this from New York to the Cape?
VINCZE: I think it was flown in what they called a Guppy, which was a big cargo plane with the nose comes up.
HEAD: Mr. Vincze, living in Clear Lake in the early 60's...and you had said there wasn't much there at that time, the employees of NASA...how did they react with each other? Was it like a family atmosphere or did everybody go their own way after work?
VINCZE: It was [a] pretty close-knit community back then. It was small and just about everybody knew everybody. I think everybody got along very well. We worked a lot of long hours. And it was a new and growing area, and everybody was young and raising a family then. We all had kids and babies and just building new schools and all those things that go on. It was a real friendly group because everybody was in the same boat, more or less. [laughter] Like I say, we spent a lot of hours and we traveled a lot. It was a very motivated group of people who worked at NASA at that time. And, like I told you on the phone, it was very goal oriented to get something accomplished in those early years.
HEAD: What would you say the goal was?
VINCZE: Well, we gotta put a guy on the moon. That was probably the primary goal. But, then along the line, of course, you have these little milestones and goals that you have to achieve in order to get there. It was a step by step process.
HEAD: How did y’all celebrate achieving one of these goals?
VINCZE: Well, probably the infamous splashdown parties [both of us laugh] that started...of course the contractors would put that on. The government didn't do that...government people aren't allowed to do that. They would just, after splashdown, have one of the local hotels...by then the area had started building up by the time the splashdown parties came. They would just put on a big buffet and drinks. There was just a good time to celebrate the completion of the mission.
HEAD: Did most of the employees go to these splashdown parties?
VINCZE: Oh...I think that everybody hit one somewhere in their career.
HEAD: Did they take their wives with them?
VINCZE: Some of them did. Oh yeah, it was pretty open. It was, no... that was a long time ago. [laughter] It was just basically a cocktail hour after the recovery of the [capsule].
HEAD: Was there a lot of drinking?
VINCZE: I wouldn't say there was a lot, but there was enough, I guess. [laughter]
Some more than others. You can't go to a cocktail party and not have a beer.
HEAD: Do you remember any bars in Clear Lake City at that time?
VINCZE: No... not as far as splashdown parties. They were usually in the hotels where there was more space. But, there were a lot of bars in and around the Clear Lake area back at that time. Some of them didn't have too good of a reputation. [laughter]
HEAD: What was the reputation?
VINCZE: They were just kind of old bars. [laughing] Probably the most famous one down at Kemah was Maribell's. Anybody that has ever worked for NASA probably knows about Maribell's. As a matter of fact, I was just back at NASA a couple of weeks ago for a physical. I am a member of this...where they roped me into...this called [very loud clock] longitudinal study of astronaut health, LAH. But they wanted a base group to study as we grew older...the doctors...and, I guess they compare it against the people who have been in space. So every two years I go down and run through a physical and they take all of my data. I don't really know what they do with it. [laughter] I guess they are trying to see if there is any correlation or anything that they could find out by being in space and then somebody that is their contemporaries. I was telling the lady, the last time I was down there, man you better hurry up and get some data. All of the people...all of my peers we're coming to the end here pretty quick. [laughter] But anyway, I was going to say that we were down there...so I went down to get some shrimp at Kemah. You just go right down to the boat to get the shrimp. And, I came by Maribell's and somebody was fixing it up...so I guess it is going to reopen.
HEAD: What do you remember about Maribell's?
VINCZE: Oh, it was just a good place to go get a hamburger and a beer. They made good hamburgers...yeah.
HEAD: So, a lot of the employees hung around there?
VINCZE: Well, it was just a place to go. You could go there for lunch or you could go there after work. It was just one of those hangouts down on the wharf. I guess it was pretty popular with the boat people.
HEAD: Was there a lot of shoptalk?
VINCZE: No, usually, socially we didn't do a lot of shoptalk, as I remember. You always get into that when you get a group together. Then, later when we got into the 70's, the was a club across the street...well, there was two in fact. One of them was called Jasons and another one was called the Lighthouse, that had music and food. It was a hangout place. But, I notice they are gone too. [laughter] I don't know what is down there now.
HEAD: What else did the employees and their families do for recreation in Clear Lake?
VINCZE: Well, you got involved, of course, like everybody, in little league and Boy Scouts. I was scoutmaster for a while in the Cub Scouts. That is quite a job. When your kids are growing up, of course, they are in school and you are involved with the school thing. And then, of course, we would go in to the Astrodome for baseball and football. But, I understand that they are getting ready to close that place up. But, I remember when it opened. It was the thing...the Eighth Wonder of the World, or something they tried to call it. And, other than shopping and going to dinner, and just the normal things that people did, it was just like any other suburbia-type living.
HEAD: It seemed like most of you...most of the people living at Clear Lake...though, basically worked for the same company and had basically had the same goals. And so it seemed like you had more in common that most communities would have had.
VINCZE: Yeah, in those early days just about everybody that was down there worked for NASA. If they weren't a government employee, like myself, they worked for one of the contractors. And, all of the people who were our contractors had offices down there and people working with NASA. It was a fairly close-knit community back then. But, then as the programs got bigger and things got bigger and more people...and the place expanded and other industries came in and so it is a lot different now than it was back then.
HEAD: As far as back in the 60's, as far as the hierarchy is concerned, the people more on top ...was there ever a problem in the community?
VINCZE: Not that I was aware of. No, I never experienced it, or ran into that.
HEAD: As far as a social thing is concerned...
VINCZE: No, everybody...no matter if you were the Center Director on down...it was very congenial. That wasn't a problem that I experienced. Now, maybe some other people had their problems, but I never did.
HEAD: Going back to the mission of getting to the moon by the end of the decade. How did that effect your job...as far as the hours are concerned, did you feel any pressure?
VINCZE: No, we just figured we were going to go and everyone was working toward that goal. I never ever recall ever being pressured. Everybody just kept working to get there and I just believe that everyone expected to get there. As far as being stressed out or anything like that I don't think...at least I wasn't...maybe somebody was.
HEAD: Did you ever think when things were not going right that we were not going to make it by the end of the decade? Did you ever have that feeling?
VINCZE: No, I figured we were going to fix it and go on and if we didn't make it by 1969 then we would make it soon after.
HEAD: Did you ever think about the Russians, particularly in the early 60's when it seemed like they were having more success?
VINCZE: We were aware of it and everybody was aware of it, of course, as I recall, we didn't know too much about it...maybe our intelligence did, but, it was public knowledge of what all the Russians were doing or how far ahead they were. But I don't think you worried about it, you just kept on working.
HEAD: Describe the hours as far as just the work hours were concerned.
VINCZE: Well, for a while there we were working six days a week. And we used to travel quite a bit, probably there were some times there where we would go a week on and a week off. A week at home and a week at the contractor. Or, a week down at the Cape and a week back home. And some of the hours got long depending on what was going on. Especially if you were testing, that could go on and on and on. We used to always travel, like in the early days on Sunday so that we didn't use up Monday morning traveling. That was kind of, (laughing), I don't know if that was a written rule or not, but that was the way it was.
HEAD: Then you would take Monday off?
VINCZE: No! You went to work wherever you were going at 0800 Monday morning.
I was just saying that you used your time to travel, which was Sunday, in order to be at work Monday morning whenever the contractor opened his door. Then you would always schedule to come back after the workday was over.
HEAD: Going back to the budget again, it seems like during the 60's NASA had a budget which was basically no limit to it.
VINCZE: Well that is probably true. They always seemed to get what they wanted.
Like I say, I didn't work in that end of it and if you needed it you got it.
HEAD: Do you think that has changed today?
VINCZE: Like I say, I wasn't into the contract end of the business but back then I think we were under what they called cost-plus. In other words, we would pay the contractor his cost plus his profit because nobody ever did it. You can't ask a contractor to build you something when nobody has ever built one of these things before. It is not like building a car or something that has been built before. And the contracting now is a little more involved. I think they have got incentives in it and there are more budget restrictions. I know, it seemed like before I retired I was working the Space station and they were always in budget problems, always in budget problems. I guess we just didn't pay any attention to it in the early days. I mean somebody did but we never could. It got to be pretty important, I think, later on.
HEAD: Why do you think that was?
VINCZE: Well, people just, Congress and the people who want to spend money different ways.
HEAD: Do you think maybe the goals changed...the country's goals changed?
VINCZE: Well, probably it is not as exciting as it was back then. Exploration is one thing but doing something over and over again is different.
HEAD: Mr. Vincze all of y’all were working for basically the same goal, and that was to get a man on the moon by the end of the decade. Why do you believe that was so important to America, and obviously...
VINCZE: Well, again we were in the space race then with the Russians. Like all exploration you just have to push to do it. You know I have been asked a lot of times, why did you go to the moon? It is kind a hard to answer that.
HEAD: Why did you go to the moon?
VINCZE: [Laughter]
HEAD: Didn't Von Braun want to go to Mars?
VINCZE: Because [President] John F. Kennedy said that we were going to go. And the Congress and the people...it was there...it was something that we could do and should do.
And we should continue to explore and do those things. It would be terrible if you never did that.
HEAD: Is that the engineer’s mentality or do you think that was more of an American thing to be first?
VINCZE: Well it was just an American thing, too, but society should have...(End of tape). No, I even have met people who don't believe we ever went to the moon. Who only saw it on TV, and they said, “well, that could just done in a sound stage down in Hollywood...and, how do I know you were really on the moon?”
HEAD: How do we really know?
VINCZE: Well I didn’t know how to answer that question. Years ago I used to do a lot of hunting in Colorado, deer hunting and elk hunting. I had an old rancher friend up there called Gus Gartolas. He came over from the old country as a young boy to herd sheep. I don't know if you have ever been in the Rocky Mountains and how they go off in these little sheepherder wagons and they just live months and months just with the sheep and the dogs. But he was the one who asked me that question and I couldn't...I said well, you just have to believe we really did it. But all he ever saw was Neil Armstrong stepping off, and then the rest of it to follow on his TV.
HEAD: Now, speaking about Neil Armstrong, how did you feel when you saw Armstrong stepping on the moon?
VINCZE: Well, I felt man we did it...we made it.
HEAD: What was the reaction and where exactly were you when that happened?
VINCZE: We landed on the moon and I was in what we called the Mission Evaluation Room, I think we called it. You got Mission Control...and they are responsible for running the mission. And in another building and rooms, we had a bunch of backup people...all the people from the program office and the people from engineering who were there to help and assist. [Phone ringing...Mr. Vincze takes a break to answer the phone...wrong number and we both laugh].
HEAD: Mr. Vincze, on the day that Armstrong set foot on the moon, where exactly were you and what was the reaction and how did you feel about that?
VINCZE: Well I was in the what we called, I believe, the Mission Evaluation Room, which was a room setup with monitors and a hookup to Mission Control, where people from the program office and people from engineering and other disciplines were there to help in case something was needed by the flight controllers. We would follow the mission and I was there when he landed. It just so happened, and, of course like everybody else, boy, we were glad it happened, and we were happy.
HEAD: There was a lot of celebration. I have seen pictures of Mission Control, and it looked like there was a lot of celebration.
VINCZE: The celebration was pretty short lived because you have a live spacecraft on the moon and you got to keep on going. Landing was just a part. I don't think there was too much celebration at that time. Everybody was holding off. Most of them probably happened after they got back. Once you got on the moon you had to get off. We had never gotten off the moon yet either, see, we had to sweat that out too.
HEAD: What was the reaction to say when you got back to your house? I mean your family’s reaction?
VINCZE: Gee, I don't remember. I don't even know if they were even awake then. [laughing].
HEAD: As far as your kids are concerned, obviously they went to school with children whose parents also worked at NASA...when NASA experienced a success like that...did the children also feel it being around other children?
VINCZE: Well I really don't know. They probably would have to because everybody...all of their friends were...their parents again worked for NASA and part of the program.
Just about in the early days everybody was associated with some part with the space program. They were just kids. It didn't make a difference who they were, astronaut children, bigwig children or what. It didn't make much difference, they were just kids.
HEAD: Do you think your children were proud of what their father did?
VINCZE: Yeah I think so.
HEAD: What would you say was your major contribution to the space program?
VINCZE: Well, you asked me that the other day on the phone and I just am not able to come up with anything major. It is just a little bit of everything because there were so many people involved. You just did your part and that was it.
HEAD: What would you say then that as a group, as a department, was your major accomplishment to the space program?
VINCZE: That depends on what part of the program, which program you were in. When we hit the moon, our little module took the man to the moon. Also, we saved Apollo 13 crew because of the lunar module.
HEAD: How...exactly explain that.
VINCZE: Did you see the movie? [laughing]. It was pretty accurate. They had a problem with the command module where the fuel cells blew up and they lost power. Then they had to activate the lunar module to circumvent the moon and come back. So it served as a lifeboat very well.
HEAD: What are your recollections of how your department felt when that happened?
VINCZE: We were very glad and proud that we were there to help, as it turned out. Of course, it was never planned to be that way but it did just fine. It brought them back and then they just had enough power to separate and deploy the shoots and come on home.
HEAD: Going the opposite extreme, what would you say would have been biggest, or your departments biggest failure, during all your years at NASA?
VINCZE: I don't know of any failures. [laughing] We were successful in everything we ever did. [Both of us laughing] Which was very amazing. People always had these predictions, you are going to lose so much of this and that. You play the probability game and mechanical things fail. They always fail. It was amazingly successful.
HEAD: How did you feel when other departments failed in say their job?
VINCZE: We expected them to fix it and go on. [laughing]
HEAD: Did you feel like y’all were also a part of that failure or that that was their failure?
VINCZE: No, everybody pitched in to help wherever they could. You didn't let anybody flounder.
HEAD: Tell me a little bit about the shuttle, about your involvement in that.
VINCZE: When shuttle came along after we flew Apollo 17, space shuttle program was coming on so we phased out that program and we all had to go to another program somewhere, which, I am glad we built it because it kept me employed. [laughing] So I moved over to the space shuttle program. I mean just the orbiter part of it, which is just the man-carrying part of it. The rest of it was built by other centers and other people. It was basically the same thing. We had a contractor which was Rockwell Corporation and we went through the design, development and qualification of the shuttle.
HEAD: What was the major problem with developing the shuttle?
VINCZE: I don't know if there was a major problem. [very loud clock goes off]
There were just a lot of problems to solve. I wouldn't say there is any one major one that I know of. It works. I don't know, maybe, well no...no, I don't know of any real big single thing that stood out. I mean, the whole thing was a challenge. It is a big airplane, very complicated.
HEAD: I know, of course, they had problems with the tiles.
VINCZE: Well that was just one problem. That was new technology again. But it works fine. You solved the problems during development, and that is where they showed up and they all worked on every reentry. So, there was not a problem, that's all.
HEAD: How would you rate the shuttle program in how successful it has been, or was there anything that could have been developed that you feel like would have been more cost efficient?
VINCZE: No, that was the only way we knew how to do it back then. The technology, if you were to design one today, it would be a lot different probably.
HEAD: What do you think is the future of space travel?
VINCZE: Well, it is there. It will come and people will go into space more and more. You just got to spend the dollars to do it.
HEAD: How do think commercial, as far as private industry getting involved in the space industry?
VINCZE: They are very involved as far as communications and all that stuff. Now, get into manned flight and that gets pretty expensive...you start talking about man-carrying vehicles. And there are some people who are proposing it. I don't know where they are going to get the financing. [laughing]
HEAD: And how has that changed from the early days of NASA to now?
VINCZE: It is just so expensive now, I guess, more than anything to do. And I don't think the government is willing to foot the bill.
HEAD: Why do you think that is?
VINCZE: I don't know...you have to ask the politicians that. [laughing] See, NASA always has to ask for money to do anything and if commercial enterprise would do it well they don't have to ask the government. They could just ask the bank, I guess.
HEAD: Do you think they could be partners with commercial enterprises?
VINCZE: They are trying to do some of that. A lot of that they are trying to get commercial-private enterprise to get into it. I don't know which way they are going to go in the future. That is up to people down the road here. But, people will go back to space. I would like to see them go back to the moon.
HEAD: Why haven't they gone back to the moon?
VINCZE: I don't know...well, the focus hasn't been there. It has been towards this international space station, which is a program which has evolved and has been ongoing for, I think, over ten years now and we are still not there. But, I think going to the moon would be the thing to do.
HEAD: Why is that?
VINCZE: Because it is there. It is a space station that goes round and round the Earth all the time. It doesn't cost a penny. The moon is there. We could go up and colonize and learn to live on the moon and learn to manage transportation systems between two heavenly bodies. I would think that there would be a lot to learn to do that. And then from there your next step, of course, is one of the planets, Mars or whatever. Of course, people say, well what is on the moon? Well, a bunch of slag. [laughing] Moon rocks aren't very pretty.
HEAD: Are there any minerals on the moon that can be mined?
VINCZE: I don't know. I haven't read or know what all they found in the moon. But, somebody, it seems I read a while back, that they have found some frost on one of the poles. I don't know how or what, but of course, right away then you say, hey we’ve got water and you get excited about that.
HEAD: What would you say would be the main problem with colonizing the moon?
VINCZE: Nothing! Just build it and fly. The technology is there to do it. We have been there thirty years ago. Well, let's see, thirty years ago this June 29th or July 29th, or when was that?
HEAD: July 16th.
VINCZE: We went there. But, if you want a project to go into space, that would be one. But, it doesn't seem to get much interest in people. I hear and read a lot about – well, we want to go to Mars, want to go to Mars. Well, that is great but I don't know if you can take that quantum leap.
HEAD: From the Earth to Mars?
VINCZE: Yeah. Besides, if you launch off the moon, you are a lot closer. Not a lot, but you don't have all of this gravitational pull. You could use that as a staging base. I don't know how feasible that is.
HEAD: In 1968 and ‘69 when you were getting ready to land on the moon, the engineers that worked for NASA, such as yourself, is that what you thought would probably happen? And, if so, about how soon did you think it would happen...as far as the colonization of the moon.
VINCZE: No, we didn't think about colonizing the moon or building a base. There were a lot of proposals to do that and the literature was out there, but there was never, we were never involved with that. We just wanted to get somebody there and back.
HEAD: You are an engineer, what was your goal after that...after landing on the moon?
VINCZE: I guess that wasn't any as far as the moon goes. There was no longer, after we explored the moon, there was no longer any goal to do anything further. For some reason, they decided not to continue.
HEAD: But, as far as your goals, the employees’ goals, where did you think they were going to go from there? Where did you want to go from there, from 1969, after landing on the moon?
VINCZE: I don't know if I really thought about it back then. We were so involved with the program at that time. And then, of course, shuttle was coming on so we were looking forward to that as soon as we finished this program. We didn't get involved in those big policy making decisions back then. [laughing] We were just poor little engineers working and doing our job.
HEAD: I am going to ask you about your post-NASA day unless there is anything else that you want to talk about, about NASA.
VINCZE: No, I don't have anything else.
HEAD: When did you retire from NASA Mr. Vincze?
VINCZE: I retired, let's see, 1994 or 95'. May 1994, I believe. I was working out at Huntington Beach on the space station program. We were trying to get the space station program going. And so I retired and lived out there for a while and tried to decide where I wanted to retire and live. So we started looking around, the wife and I, at different retirement communities...traveled the country...looked at different places. When they started building Sun City here, we looked for a golf course community...a community built around a golf course...that was not country club, but a community.
So we decided to come here and we have been here, it will be three years this summer.
HEAD: How do you like it here?
VINCZE: Oh, we love it. It is a nice close-knit community like a small town. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody came from somewhere else to come and have fun and live a good life. Almost like NASA in the beginning. [laughing] You know, it is a melting pot and nobody cares whether you were CEO at GM or you swept floors at a department store before you retired. You are all here, and there’s lots of activities and just about anything you want to do.
HEAD: How has your life changed then from the 60's and working in NASA, very goal-oriented, to playing a little golf.
VINCZE: I guess you just age and mellow out and it just evolves on you. Those were very intense times, when you are young in your late 20's and 30's. By the time you get in your 60's, you kind a just say, well just let it roll. [laughing] Actually, retirement wasn't as traumatic as I though it was going to be. Especially living here, there is just so much to do and man you can get involved in anything you want...you name it.
HEAD: You didn't have any withdrawal?
VINCZE: No, I did not...I did not. Some people have. A lot people have a difficult time with retirement, but I never did. Oh, there were a few days there where you get kind a bored, but you get used to it. [laughing] But, mainly you have got to stay active. If I didn't have all of the things to do...the wife and I play a lot of golf and we are just going to bring the woodworking shop online up here so woodwork and they got a computer club that you up and play with computers and learn computers. They have got every craft known to man up there in the craft shop. And, Austin is a neat town, with places to go and things to do. They have got all kind of cultural activities if you want to drive to town. You have got to retire to something and stay busy. That is the main thing. I know people who have not done that, and it is not good.
HEAD: If you had to do it all over again, would you have taken that NASA position when they offered it to you?
VINCZE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
HEAD: You never had any regrets?
VINCZE: Never had any regrets. We got to...not a lot of people in this world get the chance to do something that has never been done before, to be a part of it. Those were very exciting and interesting times back in the old days.
HEAD: Did you feel like a pioneer?
VINCZE: Yeah, somewhat I guess you do. Is it going to work? Well, we are going to see...test it or fly it and see if it works. [laughing] But, those were good times back then, they really were. You talk to anybody at NASA and they really liked the early days. And now their going into station and so involved with all the other countries and Congress and State Department and all that. It is just very involved and too many people compared to back then. It has to be that way I guess, but, back in the old days Congress said, here is a batch of money, go do something with it. Get that thing off the ground.
HEAD: Is there anything else you would like to add?
VINCZE: No.
HEAD: Mr. Vincze, I have really enjoyed the interview.
VINCZE: OK.